Debra and George talk about the dicey subject of age – and the “ism” that’s attached to it, in most ad agencies. They discuss how getting older has affected them in good and bad ways. And they’ll point out that neither of them are actually old — they’re decades younger than the most recent winner of the Nobel Prize for Literature – and yet, they’re perceived by some as being too long in the tooth to write a banner ad.

They tell true stories about what’s happened to them. How they’ve borne the brunt of bias. Or fought it. Or decided to use their age to have more agency than they knew was possible. And maybe how they’re conquering ageism through their work and their side-passions.